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第2季,第1集 24:尼克·摩尔登– 排放分析

排放分析|运输服务| 2018年12月24日| 44:11

故事

我们很高兴采访来自 排放分析, a business that is trying to educate us on what the actual emissions are for the vehicle you drive. The government is trying to get us to stop driving Diesel vehicles what if you were to understand that the new diesel vehicles are greener 和 cleaner than the new petrol ones? The government is a few years behind the actual emissions. Nick is busy testing vehicles from all around the world 和 letting us know the actual emissions of your vehicle! It turns out some of their customers are the car companies themselves! Listen 和 enjoy – it blew my mind! I hope it blows yours!

Nick于2011年创立了Emissions Analytics,以了解现实世界的燃油经济性和车辆排放。这个概念是找到一种方法 characterise 相对较短的车辆 test, 并能够进行大量可比的测试。解决方案是使用便携式排放物测量系统在许多车辆上有效地获取真实的道路原始数据。该数据库现在是用于 analysing and modelling this data, from which is created the EQUA Index, which is used 和 published in the UK, across Europe 和 the USA. In addition, 排放分析 conducts extensive custom testing programmes of heavy 和 light duty commercial 和 off-road vehicles. He is chairman of the European standardisation CEN Workshop 90 on collecting real driving emissions data. Nick is a specialist in data analytics, particularly in the automotive market, through his prior work at Oxford Indices Ltd, a data specialist, United Business plc 和 Haymarket 媒体 Group. He is a graduate of the University of Oxford, with an MA in Philosophy, Politics and Economics.

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Will: Welcome to the green element podcast, thank you, Nick, for joining us. Well, why don’t we start off with you telling us a bit about your business 和 what you’re trying to achieve through your business?

Nick: Yes, sir, my business, I found it, emissions analytics, back in 2011 和 the motivation was I observed that most of the official data initially focusing on fuel economy, so MPG, but also emissions were very misleading, the seriously underestimated real-world emissions 和 overestimated real world MPG. Rather than just doing a one-off study 和 publishing an 文章 leaving it there, what I was interested in is whether you could create a parallel system, what the official system should have been. So, was it impossible to test lots of vehicles for their real-world emissions 和 publish them for the general public 和 fleets 和 business 和 even manufacturers to use?

We considered a number of different types of technology for doing measurement 和 business models to be able to finance it, but we decided in the end on something called PIMS which is a portable emissions measurement system. It’s essentially a gas analyzer that you strap on a car 和 you sniff what comes out of the tailpipe. You sniff what comes out very accurately 和 second by second which gives you a very detailed picture of the real-world performance as a car drives along on the public highway. In terms of the technology of it, it’s very similar to what you find in a laboratory, it’s just packaged up into a smallish box which can go inside any type of vehicle.

So, we bought some equipment, hired some people 和 got testing 和 decided that the truth is in the data, I’m a great believer in empirical data leads to good decisions. My training is as an economist 和 what I was thinking was that the market was failing terribly because of this bad data. People were buying the wrong cars for their purpose 和 manufacturers were building the wrong cars 和 this needed to be put right. I did not expect something of the dramatic shape 和 size of dieselgate but essentially that was the point that marked the end for these very convenient, but deeply misleading official numbers 和 its really now opened up the whole field of real-world emissions. So, our businesses in a sense on that 和 we’re expanding in terms of testing more vehicles, testing more pollutants in more countries, 和 that’s our plan for the coming years.

Will: How do you choose which vehicles you want to test? Do you just choose the most popular ones that are sold 和 work down from there?

Nick: Well, firstly we try 和 test as many as we can get our hands on 和 we are roughly testing about 300 per year, so it’s a very large program, putting it in context. The Environmental Protection Agency in the U.S. runs a real-world program 和 they test about a hundred 和 fifty a year, so our numbers are higher. Our primary sampling method is new vehicles as they’re launched. So, whether they are big sellers or small sellers, we have a range across that 和 a range across 35 different manufacturers I think we’ve tested so far but we’re largely reactive to things being launched. What that means is that we are testing things as they are brand new 和 come to the market, so our data is right up to date.

Will: I’ve got so many questions I don’t even know where to start. I actually looked up my vehicle 和 you’ve actually got it, the VW Transporter. We converted into a camper 和 it came out as an A-plus-plus 和 I noticed some of them are As 和 some of them are A-pluses, is that a good sign? What should we be looking for when we go on 和 look up vehicles on your site?

尼克:我可以问一下,这是EQUA AQ等级的NOx排放还是其他等级之一?

威尔:现在你要问了。

尼克:我问的原因是因为我认为露营车是3d乐彩网车。

威尔:是的。是的,是3d乐彩网。

Nick: Ok, well in a way you hit right to the heart of the point. Let’s assume you’re talking about the NOx rating, at the moment what you’ve got is, so diesel vehicles which everyone thinks that they’re all dirty 和 would be getting F, G 和 H ratings on our scale, actually, amongst the dirty ones are hiding some really clean ones. So, there’s at least 30, maybe 40, diesel vehicles that have gotten an A rating or better for NOx. That’s the significance of the biggest, most relevant, current significance is that at the time that cities are looking to do pretty draconian bands on diesel 和 governments are certainly setting policies which are even though they say it’s technology neutral are looking to squeeze diesel out of the market. It’s just at the moment the manufacturers are actually bringing forward some very clean diesel 和 some of which are cleaner than the equivalent petrol vehicle but if you interviewed a hundred people on the street, they would be not very many people who would appreciate this, but his true.

Taking it even further than that, so let’s say the diesel vehicle has equivalent NOx emissions to petrol, if you then look at CO2, well, the diesel will have about 18 percent less CO2 than the petrol, it will have about three quarters fewer particles than petrol 和 it will have lower carbon monoxide than petrol as well, almost certainly. So, we’re now in a situation where there are some, 和 these are a minority, but there is a good handful now of diesel out there which are probably better in all material respects than the equivalent petrol, yet people have abandoned buying diesel in large numbers 和 most of them have switched back to buying petrol. So, the consequence of dieselgate 和 the policy reaction to it has been to make air quality worse 和 make greenhouse gas emissions worse than they otherwise should be.

Will: But why is it that Joe public, 和 I put myself into this category, think diesel is dirtier because originally 和 initially, diesel was brought in, it was cheaper because there’s less refinery process that goes into it 和 therefore it’s in my view 和 it sounds like it’s wrong, it’s dirtier. So, is it because they’ve been able to change 和 manipulate the fumes that come out of it 和 made it less clean or cleaner?

Nick: The reason diesel was incentivized in the first place is that it is about, like the like, 25% more efficient, so better MPG than petrol 和 about 18% less CO2 than petrol. So, when the then labour government was really pushing the climate change agenda, a big increase in the penetration of diesel vehicles was seen as a way of rapidly 和 significantly reducing our CO2 emissions. That was actually good thinking, it was a good rationale, the problem was the air quality side of it 和 diesel, if untreated, will emit significantly more nitrogen oxides than petrol which is a local air pollutant which leads to health problems.

The European regulations were meant to guard 和 make sure that vehicles were low NOx through the Euro stages. We’re currently euro six 和 Euro five before that which ended in 2015, they were things which were meant to say NOx will be very low 和 they need to meet this stand. The problem was due to the incestuous way that the regulators 和 the OEMs are in Europe, they drafted the regulations in such a way that they were full of loopholes.

威尔:当您说OEM时,您是说像大众,福特吗?

Nick: Yeah, the car manufacturers, so they are far too close to each other in Europe. And so, it created a series of regulations that sounded great on the surface of it but contained all sorts of perfectly legal loopholes which meant you could technically meet the Euro standard but when you drove the car on the road, the NOx emissions were much higher. That was going on for years 和 years 和 years 和 we were saying hey, there’s a problem here, but this carried on until dieselgate, created these wonderful sounding clean vehicles which in practice they just weren’t. Now, why did manufacturers do that?

They did that essentially to save money because to put the technology on the car to get the NOx down is expensive, they can do it but it’s expensive, so if they can avoid doing it by exploiting a loophole, they did it 和 they did it. Unlike in America where they didn’t have the loopholes 和 all the diesel were perfectly clean, except the VW ones where they actually broke the law.

威尔:非常有趣。

尼克:是的,就所有人所知,大众汽车公司并没有像在美国那样违反欧洲法律。

威尔:这就是为什么罚款在美国比在欧洲要高得多的原因。

Nick: And the fine in Europe to my knowledge it has not been disclosed what the fine has been for what wrongdoing the fine has been for. So, my take on it is that they’ve been beaten up behind the bike sheds 和 told to cough up some money so we government can say we find you. They haven’t published any real details as to what the infraction is meant to have been, I suspect there’s probably some technical paperwork infraction that has been found so maybe there is a technical non-compliance. But it is very different from the US which was a very significant 和 clear-cut violation, which is why it’s cost them about 30 billion dollars to put right.

威尔:他们实际上并没有实际支付罚款,是在美国吗?实际上,要求他们向电线基础设施投入资金。

Nick: I think a small proportion of it is actually some monetary fine, but you’re absolutely right, they’re being forced to fund the development of an electric charging infrastructure. Which is what the US does in previous infractions by other people, they get the miscreant to pay up 和 use that to fund the future development of the transportation infrastructure.

威尔:那是什么前瞻性思维?有什么有远见的做事方式?

Nick: It was made easier by the fact that VW confessed in the U.S., so it was clear-cut that they had done something wrong. That’s why the settlements happened quite quickly, they were very expensive, but they were quick 和 clean. Most of the legal action is out of the way in the US, the one that rumbles on more is in Europe because it’s all messy 和 unclear whether they’ve done anything wrong. The European regulations due to this incestuous relationship were created with these loopholes which they then used, meaning that the cars on the road were actually dirty despite being legal.

This is not a small problem, there are approximately 40 million of these diesel vehicles that are over emitting on the roads of Europe, about 8 million of which are in the UK. That is one of the big reasons why cities are missing their air quality targets, that’s a large number of vehicles. It’s also the reason that everyone is scared of actually tackling the problem because putting right 40 million dirty diesel vehicles, which as you said have been sold to people in good faith 和 in fact, they’ve been positively encouraged to buy them. Suddenly having to put that right, it is a big argument as to who should foot the bill 和 because the manufacturers have not done anything technically legally wrong it’s proving very hard for the government to get them to fund it. So, there’s currently a big battle going on as to who should pay to clean up these 40 million vehicles.

So, that’s the nature of them but diesel, if you do deploy the after-treatment system correctly, like what happened in the US on BMWs, on Mercedes, on Chevrolet’s, they can be very clean. It comes at a bit of a price so that is why diesel is slightly more expensive than the equivalent petrol. So, to buy they’re slightly more expensive, but then you get the 25 percent fuel economy advantage, so it pays you back, even if you do average mileage, it pays back quite quickly. Why does everyone think all diesel is dirty? Well, it is, it is dieselgate 和 the reaction to it from policymakers which has led to this blanket demonization of diesel when actually the truth of it is yes there are a lot of dirty ones out there but there are some clean ones as well 和 don’t tarnish a technology for what actually is a regulatory failure.

Will: Now I’m going to ask the next question kind of having spoken to Anna 和 I’ve spoken to you before. I want to go out 和 buy a hybrid petrol vehicle, what are your thoughts on that? So, there’s a lot of vehicles out there now, you have all the batteries 和 you can charge them up 和 you can drive around the city for thirty dollars an hour or until the battery goes down 和 then you switch over to petrol, is that a good thing?

尼克:那么,您是在专门谈论要查看的插电式混合动力车吗?

威尔:是的,插电式混合动力车。

Nick: A plug-in hybrid, ok. So, plug-in hybrids, they’re one of those things which on the surface of it, they sound like the best of both worlds 和 it is true that they probably are the best of both worlds, but actually for fairly narrow usage case. They turn very rapidly being the worst of all worlds if you use them in a different way. The problem with the battery is it’ll only take you 10, 20 miles, something like that 和 then after that, you’re running on the engine. Firstly, the engine is typically a downsized engine, so you’ll then have a small engine trying to power quite a reasonably large car 和 that will be fundamentally inefficient. Plus, you’ve got this battery which is heavy, so you’re carrying around a dead weight, which makes that even worse.

So, you go very rapidly from the first 20 miles on the battery which is only 30 emissions-free 和 efficient to then something which is much less efficient than if you just got a normal car. So, what’s crucial is what are the pattern of journeys that you drive? If you drive lots of short journeys 和 you have the opportunity to charge up in between then it probably is a good option. If you are driving longer journeys 和 or you don’t have a chance to charge it up every time, then it can be a lot worse than going for say one of these very clean diesel vehicles. The added thing which is a bit of a bizarre observation is that actually many of the people who’ve bought these plug-in hybrids have been incentivized to deliberately not charge them up. So, these have been particularly popular on company car fleets because of the low VED, but many of those same companies pay for your fuel but they don’t pay for the extra electricity of your home electricity bill. When you go home you have a positive incentive not to charge up your plug-in hybrid.

The government is well aware of this problem 和 they’re trying to figure out what to do 和 I think that’s partly behind why the plug-in tax grant thing was withdrawn recently to much outcry. Essentially, is it abuse? I don’t know but it’s an unintended consequence of the interaction of the VED with the company car rules. Quite a lot of plug-in hybrids on the road that people deliberately don’t charge up but let’s say you’re well behaved 和 you do charge up at every opportunity you can, if you’re doing lots of short journeys, actually, it probably is a good choice you have very low tailpipe emissions. If you’re doing longer journeys, then it will be worse on CO2, Co 和 particles than diesel, so you need to think carefully. I would certainly say they are not a Panacea, they are not some technology with is going to transform the car market. I think they will work fine for a narrow market share.

Traditional hybrids, non-plug-in hybrids for generalized driving is quite a good bet 和 it is a viable alternative to the diesel vehicle in terms of comparable fuel economy. Particularly the Toyota Prius, the fourth generation Toyota Prius has really come on a lot in terms of its fuel economy. You still need to pick quite carefully but those traditional or full hybrids as they’re called, are quite a good bet if you like that type of vehicle. It does come with certain driving characteristics, if you like rapid acceleration 和 the lowdown talk you get with diesel then a hybrid is not for you but if you’re not that style of driver, then it’s a good choice.

Will: I used to own a Honda Civic IMA, we bought it a long time ago 和 I no longer own it but we bought it because we figured it was the most environmental thing at that time when Toyota Prius was just coming out as well. We were doing longer distances, so, therefore, I figured that because we were on the motorway more than going shorter distances it made more sense to have electric powering the acceleration as opposed to then just charging up as we were cruising. What’re your thoughts on that technology?

尼克:嗯,绝对有好处的一点是再生制动,内燃机的致命弱点是它的热效率约为35%,

two-thirds of the heat is wasted 和 quite a lot of that is in breaking. So, if you can recapture some of that energy by regenerative braking 和 then use that to help accelerate the vehicle, that’s a very good approach. We haven’t tested that Civic IMA, I think it predates our testing.

威尔:是的,更多是关于整体技术。我当时正在考虑购买混合动力的汽油车。这是将两种技术完全结合的好方法,您既不是纯电动的,也不是纯汽油的。

尼克:如果您有一些有效的再生制动并将其用于动力提升,以使内燃机的电力保持在其最有效的位置,那么当您需要爆裂时弥补差异,那就非常好,非常聪明。到现在为止,混合动力车已经经过了几代人的改良,并且变得越来越好,所以很好。但是我要警告的是,如果将其与市场上最好的3d乐彩网进行比较,实际上差异并没有那么大,以至于现在它可能领先于3d乐彩网,但是我们所谈论的并不是3d乐彩网的两倍。逐步改进。因此,与3d乐彩网车相比,混合动力车的一个观察结果是,如果您驾驶一辆中等尺寸的3d乐彩网车并非常努力地驾驶,那么MPG并不会因此恶化。而如果您去驾驶混合动力汽车并真正地驾驶它,剧烈加速,爬坡,那么燃油经济性将受到严重影响。因此,您具有敏感性,因此,如果您是一个轻量级的驾驶员,那么混合动力车可能是一个很好的选择。但是不要过分地开车,因为那样的话,事情可能会比其他事情更糟糕。

Will: It’s really not that black 和 white is it?

Nick: In all this there is nothing, there is no black 和 white even pure battery electric vehicles the two concerns are obviously one is the source of the electricity in the first place. Now, that is actually in pretty much all countries around the world, it’s still better to have the EV unless you’re doing it a hundred percent on coal then you will be better on CO2. But again, the gap is not as big as you think when you take into account that upstream CO2. The other thing to bear in mind with pure EVs is those vehicles are like-for-like heavier than internal combustion, the battery pack is very heavy 和 tire wear is a function of vehicle weight. So, you get more tire wear on an EV than you do on a traditional vehicle 和 that is linked to this whole microplastics debate.

So, what happens is you get all these tiny vulcanized rubber beads or abrasions from the tires, which then gets washed into the drains, which then gets washed into the sea 和 end up inside fish, which is the current worry. So, you may have an EV which is let’s say 20% lower CO2, but it has higher particles. So, you probably overall you could argue that it is still better for the environment in the round, but it’s not so dramatically different. I haven’t mentioned lithium 和 coal, but I don’t really want to get into that.

威尔:我们实际上是在另一个播客上播报的,很有趣的是,我们有一家电池制造商在谈论这一点。

Nick: Yeah. Well, I mean it’s one of those which has become a very emotional 和 charged debate as to the right 和 wrong of digging up Cobalt in the Democratic Republic of Congo. It’s not something which is my particular area of specialty, so I’ll leave it to others, but if you just look at it in the emission sense, so an EZ will be better for CO2, but it will be worse for particles, so choose your poison is my general thing. There’s no clear 和 easy way out of this, this is a long-term thing for the industry to make their cars better 和 better, year-on-year. For the consumer, it’s a question of informing yourself 和 making sure you’re buying the cleanest vehicle for what you’re going to do with it.

You can make a huge difference as a consumer if you buy the quote ‘wrong vehicle’, you can make a massive difference compared to buying the most suitable vehicle 和 that’s why it was so tragic that all the official figures turned out to be misleading in Europe because it was misinforming people. And so, people thought they were doing the right thing from an environmental point of view, but often they were doing exactly the wrong thing. That’s what motivated me in the first place to try 和 set this right.

Will: Here’s something that we could do, we could set up a questionnaire that asks a series of questions 和 then leads you down to end up with a car that suits you.

Nick: Oh yeah, exactly. I mean, that can definitely be done to say, tell us how you drive, we know what you need, how big does your vehicle need to be? What’s your driving style? What’s the road mix that you like running the AC all the time? We have all that sort of data that allows you to be effective. We can ingest if you put telematics in your vehicle 和 then send us the details of how you’ve driven, we can model that through our data 和 say actually for your driving the most suitable vehicle is X.

威尔:对。那是您提供的服务吗?

Nick: We do a service like that in America where if you go on the motortrend.com website, you can choose your car 和 then you can tailor it by telling us about your road mix 和 driving style 和 congestion levels. It’ll take the headline MPG number 和 it will give you your personalized MPG, it’s called EQUA MPG. It’s only in the U.S. market at the moment, but it works, it works quite effectively, it illustrates the point of if you change that driving style slider for a hybrid it hugely affects the MGP, but if you do it on a 2-liter diesel, it has very little effect. Behind the scenes, it can be done with using detailed telematics data if there’s interest.

Will: So, if you’ve got the Audi A4 estates, you’ve got the VW transporter 2-liter, you’ve got a VW Golf 2-liter 和 the Skoda, whatever Skoda Fabia 2-liter, you’ve got basically all the same engines. Are you going to get the same emissions coming out the back? Or is it absolutely different?

Nick: If you’re talking about one of the relatively recent versions of those models within the last two years, then you will get very similar levels of emissions, pollutant emissions, so, NOx, Co or particles, very similar. They share the same after treatment systems, they have particle filters on them which are 99% effective, they’ll be virtually no carbon monoxide because diesel generally doesn’t produce it anyway. Where it will be different will be on MPG 和 CO2 but that will be largely a function of the weight of the vehicle.

威尔:是的,这很有道理。那么,是什么让您着迷的呢?从成为经济学家到了解汽车排放,您是如何成为一个人的?

Nick: Well, I think actually the lineages is quite close in that it is a market failure 和 that’s what a lot of Economics studies but in practical terms. I mean, I’ve done a lot of work in automotive data in pricing over the years 和 it was a question which kept getting raised by associates 和 friends saying I just bought a car, the brochure said it was going to do 60 miles to a gallon, I don’t know what I’m doing wrong, I’m only getting 45, is it broken? Should I take it back to the garage? When enough people had asked me this, I thought there’s something going on here, they can’t all be broken. And also, whenever they took their car back to the garage these friends would be fobbed off or something cosmetic would be done to it, the car would be handed back 和 told there’s nothing wrong with it 和 they’d still be getting 45.

So, I smelled an issue there 和 I tried to find data in the public domain but found very little 和 so the only way to really bottom this out is to go 和 collect some primary data ourselves. Very rapidly uncovered, at the time it was 20 odd percent average difference on MPG which tends every year we were testing, that grew every year, it’s now about 35% gap. We measured NOx at the same time 和 we weren’t expecting it, we weren’t really focused on NOx, we didn’t expect an issue, but when we started looking at our data, we found five times exceedances on average. Then dieselgate happened which meant that those who tried to explain away the findings that we were getting 和 say, oh, this is all perfectly explainable, nothing to see here, it’s because how you drive or it’s because it’s a bit cold, with proven to be actually it was an industrial scale, legal cheating that was causing it. So, yeah from that, why can’t I get the MPG in the brochure, led one step at a time to unearthing what was going on behind dieselgate.

威尔:那么,您什么时候开始做自己的工作?

尼克:所以,我们在2011年夏天开始了我们的首次测试。

威尔:好,所以你已经走了一段时间了。

Nick: Yeah, we’ve tested over 2,000 cars, vans, diggers, cranes, trucks, tractors, generators, barges. We’ve tested pretty much anything that burns fossil fuel. We stuck our equipment on 和 we built possibly, I think it is the largest commercially available database worldwide of real-world missions.

威尔:您主要在美国,还是在美国一半或一半的欧盟?

Nick: In terms of our activity, I would say it’s roughly a third UK, a third Europe, 和 a third US. We have also just launched a joint venture in Korea as well, which is it’s a nascent stage. But yeah, UK was our original center 和 then we branched out into Germany 和 the US.

威尔:您如何获得资金?

Nick: Well, it is entirely privately funded by private shareholders 和 we put all the data we gather into a database 和 people can pay to subscribe. So, if you want to know the detail behind our public ratings, you subscribe 和 pay money for that, you can also commission us to do testing. So, those two revenue streams are what fund the equity program.

威尔:那么,您会说谁倾向于购买您的数据?什么样的公司?

Nick: It’s a wide range actually, car manufacturers. You do get sometimes the absurd thing that their PR departments are criticizing us publicly at the same time as their engineers are subscribing, but rationality is overrated. So, manufacturers 和 government regulators have bought it, some of the tier one suppliers have but also, interestingly, financial institutions as well. So, there’s obviously a lot of money riding on what’s the future of diesel as technology 和 should whatever sovereign wealth fund should they be keeping their investments in, BMW or whoever it is or should they be getting out because their profitability is going to fall. So, actually, ours gives a leading indicator of the share price performance of these companies they are exposed.

威尔:是的,从声音上看。保持[35:25听不见]。

Nick: Well, there’s a massive difference between the best 和 the worst manufacturers, so some of them are really clean on average but others are still very dirty even today. It may come as a surprise but one of the very cleanest manufacturers for their diesel vehicles in practice is Volkswagen.

威尔:就个人而言,这并不令我感到惊讶。

Nick: How this can be is maybe a story for another day but it’s true, so really you could argue you go long in the ones that are clean 和 you go short in the ones that are dirty but then you’ve also got the overriding thing is diesel is a technology, is it going to be, in practice, outlawed by government city regulations.

威尔:以及所有取代。

Nick: There’s a lot of money riding on it 和 so we provide data which allows people to refine their investment decisions.

Will: Are you finding that the environment 和 sustainability as a whole are driving a lot of maybe subscriptions to your service or wanting to have knowledge of what it is you’re doing 和 understanding cars or do you think it’s purely financially driven?

Nick: I think the people who are using our ratings, the EQUA index ratings, are doing it for that motivation. So, it’s either private individuals or fleets wanting to do the right thing, wanting to take an environmental decision. From the subscriber side, I think it doesn’t work quite like that, the primary thing you’re generally responding to is the regulations. So, you want to see what our view of how compliant people’s cars are, they want to know how good their technology is compared to their rival’s technology. They want to know if they’ve got a car which is a bit risky, a bit marginal for compliance, those sorts of things. So, whether or not in the background in their minds they have as an environmental motivation, I don’t know but the primary motivation is to produce compliant cars that sell well 和 that’s what our data can help them with.

Will: So, what could our listeners do if they want to buy a new car? Where would you suggest they go? What sort of things would they think about? Could they go to the American website 和 have a look at it 和 will that give them an idea of the type of vehicle for the UK or if you’re not in the U.S. as a listener?

Nick: So, we’ve got local sites in a lot of countries now, so if you’re in the U.S. you go to usa.equaindex.com 和 you have all the ratings based on our U.S. test program. If you go to just the regular www.equaindex.com you’ll get to the UK data, but equally, there’s fr.equaindex.com for France, Italy has one, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Poland, all have localized, in the local language version of our ratings. So, I think from a buyer’s point of view, whether you’re a business buyer or a private buyer, go 和 do the research, do not trust the labeling that says euro-6. When you see that in the brochure, think I really need to look it up on equaindex.com to see what the reality is. It’s been totally debased as a rating, Euro 6, 和 you should not trust it 和 you need to find out the real worlds. Go to our site 和 then you can get the real-world NOx, Co 和 fuel economy 和 CO2.

威尔:我想知道是否会发生英国退欧还是何时[39:39听不清],无论如何,立法会发生变化,因为我们不会受到欧盟的管辖。我们将不受欧元支配。

Nick: Well, I think the answer is yes 和 no. We will not suddenly create our own certification system 和 we will not change from the European system to say the American system, it’s not going to happen, we will still use the European system for certification. Where it might diverge is in what’s called surveillance, so governments are meant to basically do spot-checking like America does to make sure no one’s cheating. So, random selection of vehicles every year then you test the vehicles 和 just make sure everyone’s behaving themselves. Now, the European regulations set down a requirement for surveillance.

如果我们不在此范围内,即使汽车经过类型认证,符合法规学校类型认证,欧洲系统类型认证,我们也可以采用其他方法进行监视。这可能意味着我们要进行更多的监视或更少的监视,对于被发现作弊的人,我们可能会有完全不同的罚款框架。那是很可能出现分歧的地方,但是我们不会偏离原始认证,那太疯狂了。

Will: Brilliant. well, Nick, thank you so much for your time today. It was brilliant learning more about what cars to buy 和 the whole thing about emissions 和 how it’s not black 和 white.

Nick: Every individual can make a material difference if they buy well 和 that’s a good thing, so people are not powerless. With this information, you can then make a better decision 和 make a genuine impact on the environment, so I think that’s something that everyone can go away 和 bear in mind when they’re going shopping for their next car. Thank you very much for inviting me, it’s been an interesting discussion 和 it’s three years after dieselgate 和 the thing is very much not gone away 和 I’m expecting this issue to rumble for years 和 years to come.

威尔:继续努力,非常感谢您所做的一切,谢谢。

尼克:谢谢。

威尔:好的,欢呼,尼克。

尼克:好的,谢谢威尔,很高兴认识你。

威尔:你也是。

尼克:再见

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Hi! I'm Will Richardson. I'm the host of the Sustainability Business 播客 和 the founder of 绿色元素. With over 20 years of experience, my team 和 I can truly help your business become more sustainable 和 environmentally friendly. Book a free consultation to have a chat about how your organisation can embrace the change towards sustainability.